{"id":7912,"date":"2024-06-17T18:01:59","date_gmt":"2024-06-17T18:01:59","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/tup.kxe.temporary.site\/spotlight-on-the-expert-shama-hyder\/"},"modified":"2024-06-17T18:01:59","modified_gmt":"2024-06-17T18:01:59","slug":"spotlight-on-the-expert-shama-hyder","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/okdesign.ca\/fr\/spotlight-on-the-expert-shama-hyder\/","title":{"rendered":"Spotlight on the expert: Shama Hyder"},"content":{"rendered":"


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\"Shamahyder2\"\"Shamahyder2\"<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n

Shama Hyder is OG social media marketing. At the University of Texas, Austin, she wrote her thesis on Twitter \u2014 back when it had 2000 users. She was at SXSW\u2019s first-ever event about interactive. At one point in the interview, Shama says social media marketing is one of the few things she\u2019s good at. You don\u2019t have to talk to her long to know that isn\u2019t true. She\u2019s the CEO of Zen Media, the B2B marketing consultancy she founded in 2008, which now has 65 employees. She\u2019s a mother and she is, as we say here in Boston, \u201cwicked smart.\u201d (Interview edited for length and clarity.)<\/em><\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>Tell me about when you were starting out.<\/p>\n

A: <\/strong>So it was just this kind of crazy world in the early days of social media and technology. I was like, \u201dThis is going to change the world.\u201d And, you know, not a lot of people agreed with me, but here we are.<\/p>\n

I tried to get a job with the top consulting firms, and I said social media is the future. They all looked at me like I was crazy and some just outright said that. They said, \u201cWe just think this is a fad and we don\u2019t see this changing how we do things.\u201d<\/p>\n

The big corporations were interested, but 2009 was the great recession and they weren\u2019t hiring. I found that there was a hunger in small businesses, a willingness to experiment. They said, \u201cLook, if this gets customers in the door, I\u2019ll try it.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n

And so I put out my own shingle. I knew nothing about starting a business. Absolutely nothing. All I knew was I understood marketing for this new world. I understood it in my bones. Being a digital native helped a lot. That and not having a dog in the fight like a lot of people from traditional media did at the time. My perspective was I\u2019m fresh and I want to do whatever works. That was really helpful.<\/p>\n

But I knew nothing about starting a company. I still remember a client asking what are your net terms? And I said, \u201cPlease hold,\u201d and I turned to our VP, he was older and said, \u201cWhat does net terms mean?\u201d He said, \u201cWhen do you want to get paid?\u201d And I was like, net now? I\u2019d like, what is it?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>What was the main problem your clients wanted to solve when you started?<\/p>\n

A: <\/strong>At the start, the problem I was solving with social media for my clients was how do we get customers in the door? And that\u2019s still what we do, just at a different scale. How do we break through the noise? How do we get people to know we exist? The real marketing is, do people know who you are? Do they know what you do? Do they choose you or your competitors?\u00a0<\/p>\n

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\"2024\"2024<\/a><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n

Q: <\/strong>What do you like about social media marketing?<\/p>\n

A: <\/strong>I\u2019m good at it. I\u2019m good at very few things, Constantine. This is just one on a very short list.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>I don\u2019t believe you, but okay.\u00a0<\/p>\n

A:<\/strong> I have an aptitude for it, and I\u2019ve put in a lot of discipline into becoming very good at it.<\/p>\n

And the other part of it is for me, work has always been sacred. I was raised in immigrant households and that\u2019s what I was taught. One of the things that greatly bothers me about today\u2019s culture is that punching down on work is cool. Or we make fun of it. We are comfortable making fun of what puts food on the table.<\/p>\n

That really raises my hackles because it\u2019s not how I was raised. My husband\u2019s an entrepreneur, I\u2019m an entrepreneur, and we both just have so much respect for what puts food on the table and what pays for soccer lessons and allows people to have economic stability and have a company that can hire people so that they can have it, too. At the end of the day, what motivates me is being able to provide more opportunities for people.<\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>How has social media changed since when you started?\u00a0<\/p>\n

A: <\/strong>One of the big shifts is that we\u2019ve gone from very public in social to very private. What that means is on Facebook, for example, when you posted a picture, everyone liked it and commented. Now, so many of those things happen in back channels. This is the rise of \u201cdark social\u201d \u2014 which was coined in 2012 by journalist Alexis Madrigal in The Atlantic. I think it was a little ahead of its time. You see now that people consume publicly, but we share privately. The number one app for anybody is a messaging app.<\/p>\n

From a marketing perspective, the issue is understanding that consumption is engagement. How many people read your work and then leave comments? None. Totally. But how many people read your work? And how many people maybe share that with their teams in a Zoom conversation, in a Slack channel, in a Google Meets, in an email? Think about how much you consume in a day as a consumer. How much do you engage with? For most people, it\u2019s minimal.<\/p>\n

Maybe I\u2019m publicly touching 2% of what I\u2019m consuming and privately sharing maybe 20% of what I\u2019m consuming. The other 80% I\u2019m not doing either.<\/p>\n

From a marketer\u2019s perspective, if you\u2019re like, \u201cWell, we used to get a lot of likes and comments. What\u2019s happened?\u201d That\u2019s not the platforms. That\u2019s not even your content. It\u2019s just human beings and how we look at social now. The rise of dark social has been a major thing in social media, and I don\u2019t think people have fully understood or accepted that.<\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>How do you adapt to that?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Communities are big. Reddit is big. You know, Discord is big. The way you adapt is you learn to influence. That\u2019s the same thing as your great content that people would want to share before. You have to know that you won\u2019t have access to those conversations.<\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>And what\u2019s changed in marketing?<\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>The last 15 years have led to a big data delusion. And it\u2019s been the saddest thing to see because we went from this one stupid quote that someone said, \u201cOnly half of my advertising dollars work, I just don\u2019t know which half.\u201d And all of the marketing world has decided that that is the problem they\u2019re going to solve. Not whether that\u2019s going to be more effective. No, it\u2019s \u201cCan I measure it?\u201d<\/p>\n

The thing is the more meaningful something is, the harder it is to measure. So, on one side of the meaningful scale, you have a mother\u2019s love. Measure that for me on a quantitative scale. Right? Good luck. And then you have straight-up spammy ad clicks. Super easy to measure. Very meaningless. It\u2019s just a scam. So or just your spam.<\/p>\n

How do we get to that middle part where it is it is meaningful, and there\u2019s some amount of measurement but we know that we are not going to get 100% measured and we\u2019re not trying for that because then the more you go towards that scale, the more you lose meaning.<\/p>\n

Q: <\/strong>I love the phrase, data delusion. Tell me more about that.\u00a0<\/p>\n

A: <\/strong>Think about who\u2019s made the most money off of it. It\u2019s Google. It\u2019s Microsoft. It\u2019s all these major companies. We\u2019ve all been sold the promise of \u201cWe will tell you what\u2019s effective.\u201d That is a lie because all they\u2019re telling you is what is efficient. They\u2019re not telling you what\u2019s effective. They can\u2019t. There\u2019s a big difference.\u00a0<\/p>\n

People have been like, \u201cOh, I\u2019ll just keep throwing money at this because at least it tells me where it is,\u201d instead of using common sense and doing good marketing, good advertising, good storytelling, because of this data delusion that we\u2019re in.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s not to say data is unimportant but instead of keeping it in context and appreciating the role it plays, we sort of bow down to the gods of data. And if it\u2019s not measurable, then we don\u2019t invest in it and then we don\u2019t do it.\u00a0<\/p>\n

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